Allen Zhang on two cuisines at one table, the question that never goes away, and what a family's own story does to a child

Yeah, of course. Uh, thank you for having me, Jeffrey. Uh, my name's Allen. I'm current- Allen Zhang. I'm currently 23, uh, old, a- and I'm a student.

Yeah, yeah. Very interesting question. So I'm, uh, I was born in the United States. Uh, I was born in Santa Clara, specifically, um, in California. Uh, and then I moved back to China, actually, to learn Chinese for my elementary school and part of middle school. And then I moved back to the United States, and, uh, um, and I've stayed here ever since. But I travel back and forth from China to visit my family there as well. So I'm a bit of a mix, uh, which is a very interesting kind of situation, but I do classify myself as a Chinese American.

Yeah, yeah. This is a very interesting question. So my family eats, uh, I would say, like, a very interesting combination of both, um, cuisines, like both Chinese and American cuisine.

To give you some examples, I would eat, um... I'll come home. So first of all, like, my mom would usually cook for me, um, and, uh, it's usually some sort of, like, a Chinese dish accompanied by some kind of, like, uh, American, like s- a kind of American dish. So I will have, like, barbecue ribs with, like, tomato and eggs, for example, like on the same day, which is kind of unusual. Uh, which is, I, I, I think fits my family background pretty well. Uh, my, like, um, I would say also, like, I use a variety of different utensils. I think this is also a very good judgment. Like, do you use chopsticks, um, or do you use fork usually, right? Like, um, and I think surprisingly, my family, I think, um, I use, um, mainly I use chopstick, uh, for my personal eating. But, like, when we have, like, a sharing plate, for example, and we still do this family style thing, uh, you, you have a fork that we use to grab things together. I think in China you either have a spoon for soup and stuff, uh, or you have, like, a, a chopstick that you, that we use to, to, to get things, right? So it's a combination of both.

Very, very good question. Um, honestly, not that I can think of- anything, like, too special.

Yeah. Uh, I was saying, like, we eat a lot of, like... well, not a lot, but, like, occasionally we eat, like, um, like, um, uh, intestines, like animal, you know, intestines and stuff like that. So for example, like, we do chicken liver, I think. I don't even know what the, what that is, actually. Just, like, something. You know, it tastes pretty good. Um, beef liver, uh, um, uh, beef heart, things like that. Uh, I think that's usually something that people don't consume, at least in my immediate friend circle. Uh, but it's something that we do.

Um, well, I think I was born in... So I lived in a very kind of liberal type of situation, uh, and a lot of my... I think the people around me are very used to this kind of Chinese American identity, uh, or, like, very used to seeing Chinese Americans around. Uh, for concepts who live in Silicon Valley, so there's a lot of, you know, like software engineers who work there, a lot of people who are there who are just, you know, Chinese Americans. Uh, so I don't really get kind of like questions that will, like, throw me off a little bit anytime, um, like very often at the very least.

Um, however, I do think, like, the... A common question would be like, "Okay, so are you Chinese or are you like American?" Right? This is, like, still a very common question, I think, to this day. Um, which I think it's kind of interesting in today's society. You would think that, you know, like they- we've integrated very well into American society, but I, I, I think, um, to the general public still, um, there is a dissonance between China and US, and they don't see... If you're Chinese American, they don't really see you as full American. It's always Chinese or American, not Chinese and American, right? Um, I think that sentiment is still there, no matter how liberal of a place you are. I, I would classify like Palo Alto, for example, or Cambridge, Massachusetts as extremely liberal, but I would say the sentiment is still very much there.

Uh, no. I, I, I actually think this is a very interesting take that you can look into, which is the, the, the idea of, um, uh, the family narrative, right? Like, how would you describe your... Like, I think a family's narrative of how they've come to be, um, cha- really shapes, shapes, like, a, a person's perception, uh, of who they are, uh, and therefore how they will shape the next generation and the people around them, right?

So I would imagine... So I can share a couple stories. So number one about my family perception. So my, my parents are both, um, born in China, and they, they went to college in the United States. Uh, and they, you know, they achieve... I would, I would classify them as achieving the American dream, right? They work hard. Uh, they got educated, uh, and then they found a very good job. Uh, and, uh, they worked to af- buy their own home, house, uh, you know, do very well in their own businesses and et cetera, et cetera. So definitely achieving their American dream. But they didn't get lost in their Chinese roots too. They still travel back to China to see their parents, aka my grandparents, uh, and they have a very good relationship with the people in China, right? They can speak Chinese very fluently. They were not oppressed or anything when they were in China. They were still, I would say, at least upper middle class in China. There's no sort of political prosecution whatsoever in their age.

So, um, the narrative I hear is, "Oh, you know, like in China at the time, there was not a lot of progress, so we moved out. Uh, but the Chinese people are still very nice, right? We're still Chinese. Uh, at least deep down, our roots were still Chinese. And then you came to America for the better future, which I hope you can treat this as your new home. But also you can move back to China from time to time to visit the people there, you know, to see what's out there. Uh, you can get the best of both worlds, so to speak," right? You can connect these two things together. Uh, that's the narrative my parents told me. It's a narrative of, uh, voluntary immigration. It's a, it's a, it's a journey of, uh, you know, um, the ascending period of both American and China. Uh, so the s- the sentiment is very much like very, uh, nice and warm, and the narrative that I grew up hearing are something very similar to this, right?

Um, on the other hand, I have friends, um, whose parents are immigrated from China, uh, in a non, I would say, not super voluntary way, right? They were prosecuted politically. They were not very happy back in the, back, back, back in China. So when they come here, they obviously have a relatively, uh, I would say, a, a, a less positive or a more negative view on, uh, China. Uh, and I think that is still down to their, their, their, their, their, their kids. Uh, so I, I think this narrative, how you position yourself is gonna be very, very important. Yeah, so I, I think that's, uh, that's my general answer. Do you have any follow-up questions to that?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I think it will make me feel more lucky that I am... So if you learn, uh, based on my understanding of Asian American history, um, the first group of Asian American who immigrated here, the Chinese Americans, who were basically more or less kidnapped here, um, or at least, you know, defrauded here, um, were railroad builders. Um, and, uh, they didn't have much, uh, with them back then. Uh, and, uh, they send most of their money back to China, uh, during, during that time. Um, and, uh, they did not, they were not part of the American dream. In fact, I think back days, back in the days, the, the concept of American dream hasn't existed yet, right? So, um, they were not achieving the American dream. They were not coming from a society where education is super, super highly valued. Uh, they were more or less exploited for their, um, hardworking and efforts and, uh, naivete, if you will. Um, uh, so that's the, um, that's based on my understanding the, the, the history of Asian American.

Uh, and then more or less coming forward, uh, there's the Chinese American, ch- the Chinese Exclusion Act, which is obviously extremely, I, I, I think, pretty harmful. Surprisingly, I actually learned about that in my history class, uh, which is something, um, you know, kind of, I, I think very meaningful to me at least. Uh, obviously one of the time, during the time when I learned it, it was not really, you know, it doesn't feel great. It's like, okay, so this shit happened to, to us back in the days. But I do think it's a very important moment in history that you learn about this kind of stuff. So that the history will not repeat itself, right? The, the same way we'll learn about, for example, like, uh, the Nazi Germany, the slavery, all these horrible things that we did to each other. Well, by we, I mean like human as a whole, did to each other, uh, in the past. Uh, only if the youth, right, at least when I was in high school, learn about this, we can, um, kind of, uh, appreciate... Number one, appreciate the, the life that we have currently, and B, avoid the same kind of mistake from happening, right? Uh, knowing the history is number, is part one of understanding who you are as a person, uh, what your identity is. Um, yeah. So, uh, that's generally speaking the, the, the, the, uh, the whole situation.

Um, I think w- what I hope, the, the reason why I'm doing this, uh, recording with you, um, and one of the things I think is very helpful is that when I look at, for example, a lot of times when people do these kind of like, um, uh... When, when people write about books and history, they talk about generalized situations, right? They talk about, uh, grand picture. The GDP declined, why? Like, what happened to the inflation, right? What is the general life of a common American? But it's very difficult to give a very specific example of how a family's lifestyle was at that time in that specific group, in that specific moment, right? I think that is very hard to truly understand. Um, and the, the reason is not because they don't want to, it is because they literally cannot find anything, right? There is no record of how John Smith's family did in 1875, uh, right, like on a given Monday. That just doesn't exist.

Um, however, with what you're doing right now, which I think is a great thing, um, future historians, let's say 100 years from now, can know exactly what Allen's family looked like, you know. Uh, and perhaps they can help them to study to understand this period of history a little bit better, understand this period of like Asian American identity. How do people feel as an Asian American right now, right here, right? Uh, with a real example and not some kind of like abstracted things. Like the question you asked before, how does Asian American, studying Asian American history impacted the way I see my own identity, I think it's very hard for me to answer without seeing the life of a selected Chinese American, you know, back in, I don't know, like, uh, 1850s, right? Uh, because it doesn't exist. There's simply, there's no record of it. If I wanna find any kind of primary source document, uh, about this, it just simply... It's very difficult to find. Or if I see it, it's a, uh, obviously there's a selection bias, right? It's not very representative. Um, so, you know, uh, I, I do think it's a very, very nice thing that you're doing here.

Yeah. Yeah, no problem.

Of course. Happy to help.